Ummah Films Released Their First Short - My Review
Posted May 02, 08 by AlBaraa
The Word TRY is for People Who Don’t DO. It doesn’t have to be perfect, it just has to get going.
Umar ibn Khattab-radi’ Allahu anhu (the second khalifa of Islam after the death of rasulAllah-sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam), would welcome criticism from the nation during his leadership. And he would take that criticism open heartedly, no matter how soft or harsh it was or how well grounded or unfair it was. May Allah be pleased with him, and may He guide us all to that which is pleasing to Him. Ameen.
So…here it goes 
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Sensei (my friend, brother in Islam, teacher, and coach) said that there are two things that are critical to the success of a dawah project:
- Making sure intentions are for Allah
- Execution (getting things done), which is way more important then perfection (which, if you haven’t noticed, is impossible).
- Outstanding Optimism — alhamdulillah this is something the brothers and sisters over at Ummah Films have plenty of. May Allah bless it with more.
We need not be like the shop owner who won’t open his shop because he is too busy cleaning it. Open shop. Learn from the mistakes. And keep growing.
This is the formula for success.
Hats off to the brothers and sisters over at Ummah Films for their work on releasing their first short, “Tomorrow Never Comes“.
This short initially written by Ali Ardekani (Baba Ali) and produced by Yusuf Chowdhury (Abu Yaqob on the Ummah Films blog). This is a first for them and like all series of first steps we fall and bump our heads on the table. If you see a baby fall and cry, it doesn’t take long for that baby to get up and attempt to walk again. The baby forgets the pain and moves forward.
As Muslims we don’t blame anyone or anything. We only know results and lessons. Each of us alone will be held accountable for our actions and each of us alone will reap the consequences for them whether they be good or bad on the day of judgement. — That is the day that truly counts.
Just a note, the video below has music (I have a thing or two to say about that in the review below).
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First the short and then my critique
Below is a rubrick that I use for rating films.
Fun Factor — How entertaining was the film? — 6/10
I’ll admit that the film did keep my attention throughout. Having been an adviser to the team I got to see the initial cuts of the film as it progressed through its stages. I didn’t start skipping through the film until after the final release, and that was less about the fact that it didn’t keep my attention and more about the fact that it has instrumental music in it (I’m going to discuss this part further).
Performance – How was the acting? — 7/10
Considering that that actors are not real actors, they did an great job of playing their roles. Although at points it felt like they really weren’t into character, I think the main man did his job well.
Eye-Candy — How well the cinematography, visuals, special-fx — 9/10
For a first film to have the look that it did was excellent. One of the brothers went out of their way and personally bought a 35mm lens adapter (which costs over $1000) for the camera they used for the production. Adapter narrowed the depth of field to a level that you see in professional productions. This was excellent.
The use of the dolly in this film was superb. I still love how they director had the camera dolly back one the character at the end of the basketball scene. I’m definitely going to use that in a future production inshaAllah.
If you had read the script you must have through to yourself, “Excellent story but how will they show this?” — They answered my question. Job well done.
Story/Plot — How well the story and plot play out? — 7/10
When I initally read the script I loved the ending, mainly because I didn’t realize what was going to happen in the end. Of course I imagined this taking place in a city and it being more dramatic. Regardless I felt the story could be expanded a little more with a little more depth.
In the end you are left desiring more. What happens after he gets hit by the car?
Character Development — 7/10
I think a good amount of time was spent developing the main character, but at the same time the other characters in the film weren’t give much time. Even the main character could have been better defined in the sense of increased arrogance.
Dialog – 5/10
It seems as though that the film consisted mainly as an exchange of one liners. With the exception of the basketball scene there didn’t seem to be much substance in the conversation taking place between the characters.
Sound — How well is the sound used to enhance the film? — 3/10
In the professional world it is said “A good composure will lay a carpet for your film.” The carpet enhances the room, but it doesn’t stick out. You don’t really notice it but it makes it work. Sound works the same way in film. If used incorrectly thn it can hurt the film.
The use of sound effects was well placed. The crispness of the speech of the characters as well as the noise of the environment was quite clear and well positioned. The particular use of music was a major disappointment on a professional level and on an Islamic one (this I’ll explain further in the next criteria). The use of blunt emotional music to tell me “be sad” or “feel energetic” was misplaced.
In the basketball scene, the use of high energy music was misplaced. Its obnoxious to say “feel energetic” when you already have an energetic scene. Same with the whole contemplation sequence where the piano plays to say “feel sad and reflective”. It stands out way too much. Personally I felt that it took away from the film.
Content – How does the film rank up against Islamic standards of visuals, sound, and dialog? — 7/10
There was nothing wrong with the visuals and the dialog. The issue stands with the sound. More specifically the use of instrumental music.
Upon seeing the completion of this film I was happy at the fact that something great was accomplished but vastly disappointed at the use of the musical instruments. I’m not going to delve into the fiqhi discussion because this isn’t the place for it.
I’ve spoken with the producer (Yusuf) about the whole music issue and he said that he believes that it’s permissible (although as I’ve learned from my teachers and the Qur’an and sunnah that the evidences state the contrary). Personally I follow that musical instruments in general are haraam except the daff (open ended drum) and sounds made from the human body (mouth and otherwise) and If I was supervising a project I’d keep it to that principal.
Fact is we won’t go very far if Allah is not pleased with us.
Personally and professionally I don’t want to be answerable to something that as I understand that Allah has forbidden. As far as I know I don’t have any control over the actions and decisions of the brothers and sisters involved with this particular production. I’m just an adviser.
Upon giving my my advice to Yusuf we agreed that I would help in making a audio track that was along that lines of the principal that I follow.
I made a post about music stuff in the past, and if you wish to read it you may do so here:
Brother Kamal Elmekki did a program titled “The End of Music” in New York. I recommend everyone listen to it and think about the subject.
Message — 10/10
Death and correcting oneself are very important reminders. Reminders such as these are what change people’s lives. I’m thankful to Allah-swt that he’s sent brothers and sisters who can deliver such a reminder. I pray that they don’t forget themselves in the process.
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Overall Score — 6.78/10
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Reply with your thoughts, comments, and reflections
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Mahmud Says: 04.05.08 at 5:58 am
as-salamu’alaykum
The movie is a good start alhamdullilah. Although I would like to know is it the opinion of Shaykh Muhammad Shareef and those with knowledge supervising these videos that Music is allowed in Islam? (The usage of pianos, percussions, wind pipes etc..) And is it not the case that at the “most” this opinion that music is allowed is at best a strange opinion and so to publicly demonstrate this opinion to a mass who in general would follow the standard opinion that it is not allowed is causing them to listen to what they believe is sinful? There are plenty of artistic brothers out there who produce material without the instruments or at least used to..and frankly I believed some of the material was on par with “music” I listened to before I started practising Islam. Can we not focus some of our resources in developing this field to be a halal alternative for the masses? It just seems in the last 3-4 years, music has become the main stay, the “thing” to do by most nasheed artists, islamic tv channels etc. This fad as I personally see it, is a product of the liberalisation Islam has been going through due to external pressures. Allahu Alam.
May Allah guide us all and continue us all in spreading the word of Islam to our fellow brothers and non-muslims alike. Amin.
Jazakallah Khayr for your efforts.
Rami Says: 04.05.08 at 8:32 am
Asalaam Aleikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatu,
As an analyst by profession, I’ll give my two cents insha Allah.
Firstly, I think Belal you are absolutely right that taking action is more important than being perfect. I know two good saying in this regard:
“Perfection is the twin of Procrastination” — One of my Brother’s favorite Quote
“It is better to act now and ask forgiveness later, then to ask and never get it done” - One of my favorite quotes.
Quality: I also thought it was good quality. The only part that looked pretty choppy was the basketball scene, but this is probably due to the motion (is that right?)
Overall: I don’t want to sit here and critique all day becuase it is easy to critisize and hard to do something. So Alhamdullilah like I said before overall the film is good Alhamdullilah. Plot-wise, The second half of the movie, starting from the basketball scene was where the plot really started to be shown. I lost a bit of interest in the first half because I couldn’t see where they were going with the film. Later as they started to develop the picture of the character being arrogant and his relation to others things began to become a bit more clear, but I still don’t understand what that had to do with the five minutes of him being deaf and blind. I am sure Alhamdullilah there is a point being made, yet one thing I know as a layman and writer, is that the average joe doesn’t — and probably can’t — interpret to much into imagery and symbolism. Black & white, voice-over rather than him speaking, imagery, these are the things only people who understand and appreciate the artsyiness and movie-technicality can appreciate.
I hate criticizing again, because it is all to easy to critize. The movie was good, just thought I would give some constructive advice from a layman when not being asked =)
Shirien Says: 05.05.08 at 10:39 am
I completely disagree. since when is it better to take action when the action is haram? i understand what you mean and where you were going with that. however the use of music is unacceptable. I dont know any strong opinion that says it’s halal. i think it’s definitely counter-productive. here the movie is saying “tomorrow may never come so repent now” yet they use music. you cant make an islamic message with haram elements.
Sure its a good start to “islamic film-making” in the technical stuff. however, to be honest it’s never better to start on haram than nothing at all.
may Allah guide us all, ameen.
Shirien Says: 05.05.08 at 10:50 am
also br. belal and anyone else working on projects, watch where your name gets put. if your name is put behind something you dont fully support than that’s an issue. Especially because you yourself make films, you dont want people saying “Oh but Br. Belal supports films with Music” - this is also coming from a PR perspective.
Another thing is that we cant just be passive when it comes to these things. especially if we have the ability to change them. I know br. Yusuf and he is mashaAllah very very sincere. However, since we want the best for our brother in Islam, we have to pressure a little and go into these major fiqh discussions with those in charge. why? because they have a responsibility not only in front of Allah, but to their viewers.
by pressure, say that you can’t help them or anyone else that uses music (or other haram elements) unless they give it up.
wallahu alem. that’s just my humble advice.
AlBaraa Says: 05.05.08 at 1:44 pm
Personally, I believe that there is a difference between putting one’s name behind a project as a whole and putting one’s name behind the specific role that that person had on the project in the context of their domain of responsibility and control.
On the day of judgment we will be accountable for that which we had control over, which is our own decisions and actions. With that understanding in mind…
If I’m spearheading a project or producing a film, I as the producer will be held accountable for where the resources come from, who works on the production and what goes into it because I have the power, responsibility, and control in that area.
If I’m someone who’s been assigned a certain task within a production (say for example…lighting), it’s my responsibility in that domain and responsibility and control that I do what I’m suppose to do to the best of my ability and keep it along the lines of what is permissible in Islam. If the producer (whom I have no control over) decides that they want to include music in the production (whether it’s b/c of a different understanding of the islamic rulings or lack of understanding of it), I really cannot do anything about it.
When it comes to people who see the final cut, they should realize that the production is an effort of many people. Some may make mistakes along the way…technical, religious, or otherwise. The key thing to understand is that those who did work will be responsible for those parts of the film.
Is it possible that Allah-swt hold back the barakah b/c of what one person did, for sure. Its very possible.
That is why its important for everyone to recognize the mistakes of not only themselves, but others as well…not for the sake of blaming each other, rather for the sake of learning from them, advising each other, and moving forward.
As the saying goes…”fail forward”
Waja ‘Alna mutqeena imaama. — Every believer is a leader — A leader doesn’t blame anyone or anything. A leader only knows results and lessons. With that the leader moves forward.
Do you agree? — I’d like to read your thoughts…
Shirien Says: 07.05.08 at 3:38 pm
The ayah is in surat Al-Furqaan “wa ja3lna LILmutaqeena imaama. Every believer is not a leader. However it’s a dua that we should make in asking Allah to “Make us leaders amongst the Mutaqoon.”
wallahu alem. I just wanted to clear that up.
also who’s to say a leader doesnt blame anyone or anything? where does this come from? Sure everything is by the Qadr of Allah,but what about the battle of uhud… the failure to follow the Leader’s orders (salallahu alayhi wa sallam) is what lost the battle. All by the Qadr of Allah of course.
However, You’re basically saying everyone to themselves– they’ll be the ones held accountable on the day of Judgment. but take the analogy of working at a bank. You didnt make the bank, you may not directly be dealing with riba, but the fact is even just working there is haram according to the strongest opinions of the scholars.
Sure, this is nothing like riba.. but it demonstrates a point. You can stand in front of a barbecue and not do anything at all with the grill, however when you go inside that smell will remain on you until you wash it off.
Even if you try to stay away from things, you’ll still somehow be affected by it if you are around it. This is something the Prophet salallahu alayhi wa sallam taught us. And I don’t think it is good as an Islamic Film Company to be associated with projects that involve music. Firstly because of the harm deen wise it may cause you to fall into and secondly because you will seem “guilty by association.”
wallahu alem.
Ahmed Eid Says: 07.05.08 at 3:42 pm
About the music issue…Ive run into this argument 10000 times…
I persoanally dont use/listen to music, but thats just because of how high i think my standards should be…but to say Music is haram…thats too big of a statement for anyone to say i think…
The truth is there is no clear cut haram about music…
Heres is what Iman Suheibb Webb has to say about it
“Regarding Music there is no agreement amongst the scholars on Music. There were some who considered it forbidden, others who didn’t and other who provided conditions for it. However, they all agreed that it should not contain lyrics that are haram nor incite to evil. Regarding the usage of instruments and so on forth, again there is no agreement on what types of instruments fall under the term [Ma'zif] and for that reason some of the Companions even played instruments, sung songs and so forth…”
I think we should respect the fact that there are 2 different, yet VALID opinions…one might be closer to the haqq in YOUR opinion, yes, but the other is not haram
2nd…im not for this, but i want to pose this question…HOW can we make movies/documentaries/any video production, expecting to capture the attention of the masses (who are, nonMuslims for the most part) without using music? We need to speak the language of our people…music is the carpet, like Belal said…without it, movies suck…yes, we can make music with our mouths, but its not the same
Cmon…we ALL watch movies, even those among us who say Music is 100% haram…
…I think thats a little contradictory…
Again, im not for music…i agree with the posts about how Islamic films should now have haram parts to them… im just posing questions to get us all to think inshaallah…there ARE 2 valid opinions about music…
May Allah give us all his guidance and tawfiq, ameeen
Jazakumullahu Kharyran
Your Muslim brother in Islam/humanity
AlSallamualaykum
Ahmed Eid
Rami Says: 07.05.08 at 3:53 pm
Aslaaam Aleikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatu,
I think for Fiqhi issues we should refer back to the scholars. The cure for ignorance is asking:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
A man was injured during the lifetime of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him); he then had a sexual dream, and he was advised to wash and he washed himself. Consequently he died. When this was reported to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) he said: They killed him; may Allah kill them! Is not inquiry the cure of ignorance?
Abu Dawud Book 1, Number 0337:
I prefere amjaonline.com. You will get a reply in a few days. Just make sure to be very clear and detailed in your question (longer question is better in their case).
Ahmed Eid Says: 07.05.08 at 4:55 pm
Sr. Shiriene
AlSallamualaykum (I come in peace…lol…)
I have read all these articles like 100 times each…this is a very deep topic that I am VERY interested in… : WHY music is haram? In my undrgrad I began researching with one of my professors on the effects music has on the mind/the influence it has on peoples actions…I didnt finish the project because Allah had something else planned for me…one day inshaallah I’ll get back on it
I already said I do not listen/use music…I AGREE WITH YOU…lol…but im still with the fact that there are 2 opinions…based on scholarly ijtihad…that are valid…
Our standards have to be upped, yeah, but everything happens in steps…we cant go from no Islam to Full, all out Islam in a night…”We don’t need to speak the language of fasaad”…I agree…
I never said that the use of rap/instruments is halal…I just wanted us all to see that we call music haram, but watch movies with music for entertainment/etc…just because there is no alternative.
Im a very practical person…tell me what, then tell me why, and show me how
About music:
“we need to educate Muslims on their deen and what is truly beautiful and not beautiful and nice in the eyes of Allah.”
I agree completely…but how? Not using music in our productions is one tiny step…that in my eyes isnt going to work…we definitely needs something else
AlSallamualaykum
Rami Says: 07.05.08 at 5:07 pm
Asalaam Aleikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatu,
btw, just for the record:
I was not referring to the permissibility of music or not; I am fully aware of its haramness.
The Fiqhi issue I was referring to was: ‘I is permissible to consult on a project that has includes haram if you yourself are consulting on a separate aspect of the project”.
THIS question should be consulted to by a scholar.
W’allahu Allem
Shirien Says: 07.05.08 at 5:16 pm
Jazak Allah khair br. Rami,
Yes inshaAllah I think that’s a good idea to ask. When I had my internship with magnolia pictures i was learning viral marketing. then they wanted me to promote their movies.. even just learning viral marketing from them i felt extremely uncomfortable and felt that it was wrong to do.. so i quit. alhamdulillah, and I don’t regret it at all. Allah replaced it with something better.
Br. Ahmed, I understand what you are saying however, i think we are using the term “music” very loosely. And I think br. Belal made it clear that he is completely against the use of instruments.
I think it’d be interesting to see from a secular scientific view the effects of music… if you know of any such studies let me know inshaAllah.
AlBaraa Says: 07.05.08 at 5:32 pm
Shirien,
RE the ayah, indeed it is a du’aa found in a beautiful surah that was revealed in makkah when the kuffar were raising alegations and doubts of the solidity and truth of the quran. It was revealed to establish a criterion for distinguishing the real from the fake, truth from the falsehood and the characters of the people of truth from the character of the people of falsehood.
These very ayat are teaching us what the characters of those who follow the truth are…read below (ayat 63-77)
And the servants of the Most Gracious are those who:
– (1) walk on the earth with dignity and humility (not with arrogance and pride)
– (2) and when the ignorant people insult them with bad words, they do not respond in kind, but they forgive and overlook, and say nothing but good words. (see the first eleven ayat of Muminoon for more explaination).
– (3) and they spend the night in worship of their Lord, prostrate and standing.
– (4) And those who say: “Our Lord! Avert from us the torment of Hell. Verily, its torment is ever an inseparable, permanent punishment. Evil indeed it is as an abode and as a place to rest in.
– (5) And those who, when they spend, are neither extravagant nor stingy, but are in a just balance between them.
– (6) And those who invoke not any other deity of worship along with Allah
– (7) nor kill such person as Allah has forbidden, except for just cause
– (8) nor commit illegal sexual intercourse — and whoever does this shall receive Athama (a valley in the hellfire) The torment will be doubled for him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace except those who repent and believe, and do righteous deeds; for those, Allah will change their sins into good deeds, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.) And whosoever repents and does righteous good deeds; then indeed he has repented to Allah Mataba
– (9) And those who do not bear witness to falsehood
– (10) and if they pass by some evil play or evil talk, they pass by it with dignity.
– (11) And those who, when they are reminded of the Ayat of their Lord, fall not deaf and blind to it
– (12) And those who say: “Our Lord! Bestow on us from our wives and our offspring the comfort of our eyes, and make us leaders of those who have Taqwa.”
Those will be rewarded with the highest place because of their patience. Therein they shall be met with greetings and the word of peace and respect. Abiding therein — excellent it is as an abode, and as a place to rest in. Say: “My Lord pays attention to you only because of your invocation to Him. But now you have indeed denied. So the torment will be yours forever.
The surah ends with that. — with these ayat Allah-swt is teaching us what the characteristics of the believers are and how they are different from those who deny Allah. As a believing Muslims we make du’aa to Allah as he taught us and we have full trust in the fact that he will answer it, with that we understand that every believer is a leader, and he/she continuously makes du’aa to Allah to continue to bless him with that. — at least that’s what I’ve understood from it.
Shirien Says: 07.05.08 at 5:44 pm
Barak Allahu feek,
I was just correcting the translation/transliteration you provided. Jazak Allah khair but i still dont see your correlation between the dua and saying everyone is a leader. For the ayah is not saying make us leaders in a group of kuffar, it’s saying make us leaders amongst al-mutaqoon (a group amongst believers) therefore from my understanding- not everyone is a leader. wallahu alem
I guess it all goes back to “leader in what sense?” anyway, I was just correcting a translation/transliteration
AlBaraa Says: 07.05.08 at 6:10 pm
Ahmad,
The scholarly differences of opinion lie in the definition of “music” and what falls under the domain of that definition. What is known as “music” in the western cultural understanding isn’t the same as what is understood in the sharia. At the real core, the majority of the scholars don’t disagree if you see what is in the the usool.
Its hard to explain without getting technical on the fiqhi stuff (perhaps I’ll make a movie about this oneday).
I have spoken to br Jawad about the issue a few times, and he’s recommended a book for me to read (see this for full details of that discussion: http://forums.almaghrib.org/showthread.php?t=22994)
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RE you second point where it’s asked “HOW can we make movies/documentaries/any video production, expecting to capture the attention of the masses (who are, nonMuslims for the most part) without using music? We need to speak the language of our people…music is the carpet.”
the music maybe A carpet, but keep in mind, the homes that have REAL value are the ones with polished classic hardwood floors. The ones that people pay millions of dollars for. The ones that don’t collect allergens over time that cause asthma to people like my little sister and allergies to people like me. I hate cheap carpeting and allergies. I’ll take classic hardwood over the cheap stuff anyday.
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RE your final point in the later post: where you said, “Not using music in our productions is one tiny step…that in my eyes isnt going to work…we definitely needs something else”
There is something called “The Broken Windows Theory”…aka “the Power of Context” coined by Malcolm Gladwell in his book “The Tipping Point (read it, its an excellent book). The theory was developed by criminologists James Q. Wilson and Goerge Kelling who basically argued that crime is the inevitable result of disorder. If a window is broken and left repaired, people walking by will conclude that no one cares and no one is in charge. Soon, more windows will be broken, and the sense of anarchy will spread from the building tot he street on which it faces, sending a signal that anything goes.
In the 80s, NYC was facing one of the worst crime epidemics ever (my dad will tell ya, he went to Columbia University for his masters during that time…during his orientation they basically told him which streets to not go on at what times). Drugs, murder, and all sorts of crime…you name it.
These two criminologists (James Q. Wilson and Goerge Kelling) were hired by the city and their theory was put into practice. They instructed the city to start with the “small” crimes such as graffiti on the walls and fare jumpers (people who skipped paying the toll for the subway). This sent a statement throughout saying “were taking the subway and the cities back”
topping fare jumpers took 6 years. The cleanup of the grafiti in the subways, headed by transit police chief William Bratton took another 4 years and it worked! After this Bratton was appointed head of NYC poliece dept by former mayor Giuliani and they applied the same theory to the city at large.
He instructed the officers to crack down on the quality-of-life crimes. They started clamping down on things like public drunkenness public urination (this got jail time) and arrested people for throwing empty bottles on the street.
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If you carry this theory into our Islamic dawah and work and into the media and apply it to the quality of dawah, imagine the effect it would have and the message it would send. It starts with the small things that people see everyday (fare jumpers, grafiti, litter, unrine, etc). With the dawah and media…music is something people clearly hear. replacing it with the halaal to begin with…will send a message to the people that is louder than anything we say.
Can we as Muslims produce scores for movies that don’t use instruments and sound way better and are of greater quality than the cheap carpeting everyone else puts in? Of course we can! Its a matter of whether or not you believe it.
I believe it. I’ve done it quite well alhumdulillah (and I’m no composure).Its time everyone else starts believing it too and begins working toward a cleaner and higher standard of media in this world.
do you agree?
Ahmed Eid Says: 07.05.08 at 6:18 pm
Belal:
Ill talk to you in person dude…inshaallah
Sallams
Ahmad Yousaf Says: 08.05.08 at 11:36 am
Salams everyone,
great discussion… I would like to start out by saying that I think we must first understand the concept of the etiquette required when discussing topics of fiqh especially when there is two major opinions on the same topic… AND YES THERE ARE TWO… Let me start off by saying that I do not generally listen to music so much as a personal preference and would actually advise most to keep music listening on the low side BUT to say that it is haram and completely NEGATE the valid scholarly opinion of a huge group of MUSLIMS is very dangerous. The purpose of ‘people if knowledge’ is to come up with the fatawa for the masses. To think that the opinion of a layman like you or me SHOULD be effective for all of mankind is bordering on arrogance… I respect your opinion and it is competley valid but in the context of fiqh, you have no greater say than that of a non-muslim who has never read the Quran…. In another light, the valid opinion of the scholars who say music haram should also be respected which is why i would never force you to listen to music but don’t go around telling people that the scholarly opinion they recieve is not ‘valid enough’ or that the Dr. Qardawi has no idea what he is talking about… C’mon brothers and sisters, we have to get over the ‘there is only one right way’ attitude… I cite the story of the the sahaba who when traveling were told to pray Asr when they reached there destination BY THE PROPHET (s). When some of the sahaba realized they would miss asr they stopped along the route and prayed while others prayed at the destination late…. When the prophet (s) was asked about this he said that both were correct…. and in this case, some sahaba DISOBEYED THE ORDER OF THE PROPHET…. see tolerance of opinions in islam :o)… I hope i did not offend anyone … i love u all for the sake of Allah and BILAL I MISS YOU BRO!!!
your brother
ahmad yousaf
AlBaraa Says: 08.05.08 at 11:52 am
I miss you guys too! — can’t wait for finals to be OVER! (today is last day)
Mahmud Says: 08.05.08 at 11:56 am
as-salamu’alaykum
Over 30 years ago, the great Shaykh Abul Hasan Ali An-Nadwi came to the states and gave a lecture to the Muslims and one part of that lecture was very apt. He warned that the time will come when there will be many different “colors” of Islam, one for America, one for UK, one for other western communities and so on. He was not admiring these colors but warning that eventually the “culture” which we live in will undoubtedly and eventually “rub off” onto the Muslims and the universal color of Islam will change according to time and place. This is something I believe that has now happened in America over the last few years with many claims on topics like Music, Hijab, the Beard, allegiances and enmity all being made key topics in the highly strung climate that Muslims in the west experience, post 9/11 in particular.
Some of the comments above are a reflection of this. Examples from Banu Quraydah and ayat are used in order to give validity to ones opinions without the “correct” principle being applied when using them. Yes we should go back to the people of knowledge, but it is in this day and age when the people of knowledge are disagreeing with one another. A good position to take in times of fitnah, is to go back a generation or generations before the fitna occurred and refer to the classical and traditional scholars of that age and see what they say on the topic. Often when people are in the midst of a fitna, they can only see as far as the glass of their own goldfish bowl and they cannot see the wider picture - that is human nature. Hence Prophets and guides were sent to us, those who could stand above the rest and “lead” the people away from the fitna.
I do recall reading on this website an earlier article on the need to provide “alternatives” to music which are purely halal in all senses of the word and are definitely MAINSTREAM opinions. Please note just because there is “another” opinion does not imply it is a “valid” opinion. Hence even when a Sahaabi of our beloved Prophet salallahu alayhe wa salam held a view which was strange to the rest of them. Does this mean his opinion is valid? No, in fact the opposite. Some scholars of the past said, that if we were to catalogue all the strange opiinons of the salaf and one was to follow them, then that person would not be a Muslim (paraphrased). There are many examples one can cite with regards to this.
I would ask the brothers and sisters to take the time to read the following 2-3 articles which goes onto the important topic of Ijtihaad and Ijma and the principles behind using them:
http://www.islam21c.com/british-affairs/a-simple-matter-of-disagreement.html
http://www.islam21c.com/british-affairs/consensus-ijtihad.html
http://www.islam21c.com/british-affairs/music-a-prohibited-and-fake-message-of-love-and-peace.html
Jazakallah Khayr, I know its long to read all three. But I think its time well spent - Ignorance is destroyed by Knowledge.
May Allah guide us all to that which pleases Him most and away from that which He dislikes. Amin
Your brother
Mahmud
shirien Says: 08.05.08 at 12:24 pm
With all due respect Br. Ahmad I think alhamdulillah most of us understand that there are differences of opinion and that we should follow the proper usool and adaab when talking about matters of ijtihaad. however, the issue of musical instruments is something that is not really in the grey. for it was a very very small minority of scholars which approved of it. and the evidence to indicate that it is impermissible is pretty clear. You mentioned that you dont listen to music as a personal preference…. however, the thing that separates a person from getting good deeds or not getting rewarded at all is intention.
There is a religious reason for not listening to music (as you know) and indicating to others that it should just be their preference is dangerous. it seems as though a lot of people today like to take the “easy way out” and think that just because a reputable scholar says it is halal they can take that route without doing their research. even the 4 imams would tell people that if anything they said contradicted Quran and Sunnah to never take it from them. Our job is to go back to the original sources.
I’m not singling you out Akhi. However, you brought up some points that needed to be discussed.
We are not talking the use of the mouth and not the use of the mouth.. we are talking instrumental/rap music and not using instruments. for which the opinion that instruments are halal is a very weak opinion. There are resources out there, and i’m not just talking about going to a sheikh whom you know his opinion matches yours. see both sides and both evidences and inshaAllah it will be clear which one is closer to the truth.. wallahu alem.
inshaAllah I recommend everyone to find the truth about the matter.
wallahu ta’ala alem.
Mahmud Says: 08.05.08 at 12:44 pm
Just as a side point there are some great great scholars of our illustrious Islamic history who held some very odd opinions indeed, but they were indeed “odd” and the majority of mainstream scholars of that time and before and after rejected the opinion, not just disagreed with it.
(Sorry for the crude example but it makes a point)
I can cite an opinion of a great Imam, who believed it is permissable to enter one’s wife through the rear passage! Is the documentation of this opinion, now enough for one to say that there is more than one opinion on this matter and so we shouldn’t condemn this “valid” opinion!? The reality is that even the great scholars of the past erred, the difference being that they are rewarded with one reward if they came to an incorrect ijtihad through sincere research, but for us to follow that opinion is another matter altogether especially if that opinion is against the majority or all other scholars and a consensus (’Ijma).
Plus to watch “movies”, I think we will be even harder fetched to find scholars allowing this. The fact that music, looking at ghair-mahram women, usage of time are all major major issues involved and I don’t think just covering up the “naked” scenes and putting the “music volume” down is sufficient.
“Movies” are their da’wah tool to the world, the reason why they want everyone to have a satellite receiver in their houses even if you live in Makkah! I think we should be very cautious in saying “we all watch movies”, thats not a justification and more worryingly we should realise it is more than likely sinful. AND even if were to believe it is a “grey” area, then from the etiquette of a Muslim is to leave that which he has doubt in, if he is to protect himself from the fire.
Allahu Alam
Mahmud
Ahmad Yousaf Says: 08.05.08 at 12:52 pm
Salams, dont worry i dont take offense… but i do think you are completely and utterly wrong sister… shakh ul-islam is not a ‘minority opinion’… give me a break, i am not taking the easy way out, i am instead saying that we as muslims have to get over this concept that ‘ther is only one right way’. Music is not black and white as you stated… sahaba used various instruments and it was once neve rcondemned by the prophet…. just look up your sources in completion… again i respect your opinion that it is haram but do not force that upon a people when you have no right…. the same way i will not when i have a sterner opinion of my own… It is ridiculous that a media outlet makes fatwa without the backing of a scholar… who do we think we are… We hve to learn to disagree without saying that because of our disagreement one of us is punishable EVEN THOUGH there is evidence to the contrary… I am disappointed in our ummahs reactionary attitude to things they believe are one way, this my way or the highway business…. the prophet ordered us to obey the scholars and not or own ijtehad because we are unqualified, if you feel fine telling Dr. QARDAWI that his opinion is COMPLETELY invalid, then go ahead… I just wouldnt :o)
May Allah guide us all…
yousaf
Mahmud Says: 08.05.08 at 1:13 pm
Br. Ahmad,
No one is saying Islam is “one right way” in every matter. But there are usul, fundamentals, which are not changeable. These usul are those which are directly from the Quran, or Sunnah or both and thirdly from the Ijma’ (consensus) as our Prophet salallahu alayhe wa salam said that “My ummah will never unite upon misguidance”. We cannot differ on these usul. There are those matters which are ijtihaadi - but even these have guidelines - I would ask you to please read those articles I posted above for more clarification.
There are MUCH greater scholars of Islamic history, notably Ibn Hazm raheemullah, who held some very strange views and his contemporaries rejected them and he was not preceded in before. This does not give validity to the opinion when the vast majority and sometimes a consensus is held amongst the other scholars, however great the scholar may be!
The event you mentioned, of Banu Quraydah was an event in which the Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhe wa salam saw how his sahaabi has easily interpreted his words in two different ways. Hence he did not rebuke either because his statement was not in contradiction to either stance. But this does not mean both were inherently correct. In fact Dr Abu Ameenah Bilal Phillips states that the fact that Prophet Muhammad salallahu alayhe wa salam prayed HIS ‘Asr within its time is a proof in itself to which of the two opinions were correct. Plus we are talking about a disagreement between a group of companions! Not a modern day disagreement amongst ourselves!
May the One that you love me for, love you. Amin.
Jazakallah Khayr
shirien Says: 08.05.08 at 1:21 pm
Br. Ahmad,
First, again I said I was not attacking you personally so when I said people take the “easy way out” i was not refering to you specifically and I apologize if it sounded that way. However, The opinion of Sheikh AlQardawi is the opinion of Ibn Hazm and a couple of other major scholars. However, it is still the minority opinion.
Br. Mahmoud said it very nicely with his example. It may be that some of the giants of this ummah had different views, but some were odd and were considered a minority opinion. Other examples: Sheikh Al Albaani saying that Gold is haram even for women. Do we discredit him as a scholar, of course not! rahimahullah. Also, there is right and there is wrong, and then there are thing that are grey. we should no only leave the wrong, but we should leave those things which are grey (for fear of them actually being haram) as per the advice of Rasool Allah, salallahu alayhi wa sallam.
Secondly, you said that I have no scholars to back this opinion? Allah yahdeek. I do not issue fatwas in any way, shape or form. I am only speaking from the opinion of the majority of the ulooma’. and if you would like me to list some of the scholars who hold this opinion let me know.
Sheikh Albaani, Sheikh ibn Uthyameen, Sheikh Bin Bazz (rahimahumullah)
how about Abdullah ibn Masood or Ibn Abbas or Ibn Umar May Allah be pleased with them.
and what about Sheikh ibnul Qayyim, Or Hasan Al-Basri (rahimahumullah)
who all commented on the verse in the Quran ” “But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a humiliating Penalty.” [31:6]
and all said that Idle Talk (tales) refers to Music. WAllahu ta’ala alem. (one of many proofs)
If you would like more let me know inshaAllah.
Anyway, InshaAllah I plan to do an unbiased news article talking in depth about this topic by interviewing sheiookh and scholars who hold the different opinions so that inshaAllah people can see the arguments and counter arguments themselves inshaAllah.
WAllahu ta’ala alem.
Ahmed Eid Says: 08.05.08 at 1:38 pm
AlSallamulaykum!
Heres an article i found that should shed some light on the issue inshaallah
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544202
Br. Yousaf, Mahmoud…and Sr. Shiriene…were all not getting anywhere…lol
I think , Wallahu A3lam, discussions like these that occur on these types of forums don’t get us anywhere…we should discuss these issues in person if anything…
Sr. Shiriene…there are hundreds of articles written by many scholars on the topic…all we need to do is click a couple of times and we can have everything…the articles that were cited in the beginning of this discussion have both arguments, and the writer even said something like…Ive shown you both sides, use your own judgment to see which is more correct …which i really liked
Maybe you can like, compile a list of all articles…
I want to remind us all with a quote from Iman AlShafi’ee, inshaallah
“Never do I argue with a man with a desire to hear him say
what is wrong, or to expose him and win victory over him.
Whenever I face an opponent in debate I silently pray -
O Lord, help him so that truth may flow from his heart
and on his tongue, and so that if truth is on my side, he may follow me;
and if truth be on his side, I may follow him.
- Imam Ash-Shafi (rahimullah)”
I love you all for Allah!!
May we all meet in jehhah inshaallah
AlSallamualaykum!
Ahmed Eid
AlBaraa Says: 08.05.08 at 2:09 pm
I think it would be great to put together a documentary that approaches the issue in a creative and informative way to educate the people.
Is it possible to make a movie that once and for all removes any and all confusion around the issue? — We wont know till we go
Shirien Says: 08.05.08 at 5:06 pm
IMPORTANT CORRECTIONS:
Alhamdulillah, I’m not one to not admit when I am wrong so I have two corrections to make from some of my previous statements as a student of knowledge whom I respect greatly has emailed me the following points which I will copy and paste here:
1 - the ayah from Surah Furqan where Allah describes the believers of Ar-Rahman making the du3a ending with “waj3alnaa lil muttaqeena imaama” ….Abdullah ibn ‘Abbas said that this refers to the true believers making du3a to Allah to make them “examples worthy to be followed by others”. He also said this refers to the true believers making du3a to Allah to make them among those who call others to goodness.
2 - Ibn Hazm al-Andaloosi rahimullah never said music is ok. Dr.Yusuf Qaradhawi’s own view is Music is Halal. Ibn Hazm clearly said “i do not have any authentic proof saying ma3aazif (i.e. instruments) is Haraam” (and he stayed quiet at that)
Spain was always a musical environment. Many of Ibn Hazm’s Fiqhi Fataawa therefore are based on “Spanish culture”. If you study Usool ul Fiqh you will see that ‘Urf (customs) is also a source of Fiqh..IF..no authentic evidence is found on the subject.
Barak Allahu feekom for correcting my mistakes and may Allah forgive me and increase us all in knowledge. ameen.
Ahmed Eid Says: 08.05.08 at 7:49 pm
I want to make a documentary about Music in Islam Belal…I would LOVE to take on that project
Inshaallah this summer Im taking couple of film/video editing classes…im working on developing myself as a film producer…im still in the WAY beginning, but inshaallah, with allah’s help and some dedication, I really think I can do it…with a good teacher
Im gonna see you a lot in the summer inshaallah…well talk about it soon
I think im going to make it my first real project…something I can learn how to shoot/edit/produce videos with, while at the same time befiting the Muslims by putting all these articles/scholarly opinions into an unbiased, interesting mini documentary that is easy to understand and makes everything clear
Awesome idea Belal…I already started brainstorming about it
Jazakallahu Kharyan
AlSallamualaykum
yousaf Says: 08.05.08 at 9:35 pm
Salams,
Sr Sherien, wallahi i respect you though i have never met you because of the way and the passion with which you state your arguments… And akh Mahmud for the same reasons… I will tell you that you have yet to change my mind though and obviously i have not yours… I do believe that the ‘idle talk’ you quote in the beautiful ayah you quoted could be interpreted simply as talk such as gossip or along the lines of wastefulness… what if the music i listen to speaks of the greatness of Allah (i.e sami yusuf, who i personally dont like lol)? I also dont think we sould ‘rank scholars’ as lamen and women :o) because of the fitnah it may cause between us… scholars have taken many points of views and when dealing with each other they respect those opinions… i want to state again… the fatwa that music is haram is completely VALID and i not only understand it i respect the one who limits music in there lives if they believe that this brings them closer to Allah…. i am not going to continue this argument because i realize that it is not wise to further this and it will only leave us frustrated because of all of our sincere intentions :O) i just discovered this forum and cant wait to get into other discussions regarding this beloved deen of ours!!
salams
your brother, yousaf
Rami Says: 09.05.08 at 9:47 am
Asalaam Aleikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatu,
About Ibn Hazm’s opinion on music:
I remember someone once mentioned to Yaser Birjas about Ibn Hazm’s fatwa on Music, and Sh. Yaser replied back(paraphrasin): “Well, if you want to follow Ibn Hazm’s fiqh on music then you should also follow the rest of his fiqh as well, where Ibn Hazm was also of the opinion that every prayer must be done in the masjid”.
yousaf Says: 09.05.08 at 9:51 am
I think that is a very harmful thing to say… do you only listen to every fatwa given by yasir burjas??? or how bout you call EVERY IBN HAZIM fatwa invalid!!!!!! dont go to extremes here…. its dangerous to be criticizing scholars brotehrs and sisters… lets remember the ettiquete with which the sahaba dealt with each other when it came to differences of opinions… A good example of this is that of the collection of revelation into one book during the khalifa of Sayidna Abu Bakr (r)… read how umar and abu bakr dealt with each other in their time of difference…
Salams
yousaf
Mahmud Says: 09.05.08 at 11:35 am
as-salamu’alaykum
Br,Yousaf,
I don’t think anyone is “criticising” these scholars. They have been mentioned as great scholars, Shaykh Qardawi, haafidhullah, is a shaykh as well, but not as great as Ibn Hazm raheemullah, I am sure he would agree with that too! BUT they are not free from error either as they are from the children of Adam alayhis salam. The difference is that when they make ijtihaad they still get rewarded EVEN if they make mistakes. But certain opinions go against ijma’, they go against fundamentals which many many scholars will have cited as invalid opinions. This is not criticising the scholar this is rejecting his opinion because it goes against an ijma.
I don’t think that was the best statement to say by Shaykh Birjas on Ibn Hazm raheemullah. Even though Ibn Hazm was known to be of the dhaahiri madhab in usul, and one of his famous opinions was that he believed that for a man NOT to pray in congregation would make his prayer invalid not even disliked. You may follow an opinion of an Imam on one matter and not his other opinions as long as you genuinely believe it is the sunnah and you are not following your desires. But I think Shaykh Birjas response was more in line with the fact that the majority of scholars of his time, before and after rejected that opinion on music. Allahu Alam.
Regarding doing a film on music. I do not think its a wise thing to do. It is a matter of fiqh which currently is under debate. The debate is NOT for the masses, they do not have the tools to really fairly judge a debate on the matter. This matter should be left to the scholars who really should finalise this. The problem really is that the shabab have brought this matter into the public arena either for their own benefits, their own nasheeds etc. and it has brought a scholarly debate to the masses. It was a recipe for disaster and has been a disaster. Nasheed artists now sell their nasheeds with “instrumentals” when only 3-4 years ago they would never dream of doing so! So why the change? Have we advanced? Has our knowledge of Fiqh advanced in the last 3-4 years and not the 1400 yrs before that? I think we really really should reflect on world events and climates and how they certainly aid certain “revolutions”.
I think a more general film, like a documentary with many many different scholars regarding how to deal with differences of opinions in general. That is what opinions are we allowed to differ on and it is HARAM for us to split from another upon, and what opinions are from the fundamentals and we cannot differ on and it is HARAM not to split i.e make iftiraaq upon. etc etc. These would be principles which if it sinks in to the general person then this is best, then people can judge an opinion or a “popular” matter when it comes for themselves in the correct way. If you always give the people the answers they keep coming back for more, if you give them the tools then they can decide on certain matters themselves.
EVEN if you truly and sincerely believe in the very weak opinion that music is halal with its restrictions does it make sense to produce music for the masses whom on the whole would believe it is not allowed, or traditionally understood it to be not allowed? I think the answer is obvious, to say Hip Hop is part of American culture and as this is OUR culture so Islam must utilise the da’wah on this part of the culture - that is very dangerous territory. We certainly know we are close to the end of times:
That he heard the Prophet saying, “From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful….” - Bukhari
Mahmud
yousaf Says: 09.05.08 at 2:42 pm
well spoken… i would love that video idea way more than a video on music… looking forward to it… btw, hip hop transcends just music with instruments… the hip hop culture was started with a huge muslim influence and though the pop culture image has tainted the positive messages of hip hop, hip hop was started by MUSLIMS… just listen to earl to mid 80’s hip hop and you will hear the huge muslim influences :o)
yousaf
AlBaraa Says: 09.05.08 at 2:52 pm
Well spoken indeed.
Yousaf, you said, “i would love that video idea way more than a video on music”
Which video are you talking about?
Mahmud Says: 09.05.08 at 6:15 pm
Personally, I would love to do a number of short documentaries - something like the “Empire of Faith” style series by PBS. Obviously not as big or on such a budget but the style in weaving in parts of interviews into a narrative. Interviewing many many scholars and students of knowledge etc. and taking valuable snippets and weaving them into a story line and producing it to a high enough quality such that it can be shown on Islamic Channels like Islam Channel, Peace TV and Huda TV etc.
I think there are a number of key topics that we should really focus on for our brothers and sisters across the world.
1. Importance of Prayer - If we pray 5 times a day, a huge percentage of us do not, especially when it is a barrier for most of us from all types of fitna and fasad. The prayer is the most important matter after the testification. Some scholars, in particular from the hanbali madhab say to intentionally miss just one prayer takes one outside the fold of Islam. Narrations of the Prophet salallahu alayhe wa salam which say that the distinguishing barrier between a muslim and a disbeliever is the prayer. It is one of the single most important acts of worship that every Muslim must perform, whether a new muslim, sick, bed bound etc. (unless he/she is not sane or unconscious i.e without mind). So how can we neglect it!?
2. Importance of Istiqama, steadfastness - especially in these times when Islam is maybe even as prophecised such that it is like holding onto hot coals. Keeping to the principles of Islam and not compromising our faith and succumbing to monetary gains or peer/community pressures etc.
3. Ideological attack - I would love to do a piece which talked about the silent war which has brought many of us to our knees, has changed and warped minds and thoughts of Muslims. (although perhaps not a priority)
4. Reflection on the Qur’an - how many of us have read the qur’an from start to finish, not just in arabic but in our own language? In Surah fatiha we ask Allah to guide us, at least 17 times a day. In Surah Baqarah the first ayat tells us that this book is that guidance for those who are pious. So just read it, everyday, an hour a day, a few moments a day, in our own languages. We can read Harry potter once, twice, thrice many a time but what about the book sent to us as guidance for our life. How can we make ourselves the people of the Qur’an once again?
5. Who is right? - The matter of ijtihaad the valid and the invalid. The general layman’s view and response to all the fatawa he/she sees being thrown about.
SO many ideas, so much to do! For me I would love to start a project to produce short compelling documentaries like this amongst a few like minded people. But I think all of you are states based and I am in Makkah! I have seen some of the ad’s and other work done here and I really do enjoy this side of the media and your willingness to provide a real islamic alternative without compromising its principles. I am actually one of the directors of a Hajj and Umrah firm in UK, called White Jewel - but one of my hobbies is in media production, I love learning and using tutorials on After Effects and Premiere and I made my second TV advert for my company while passing the time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmdEogq24Oc
It’s a bit jerky and low quality on youtube but one of our aims of that video was not really solely for our company but to really give the avg. abdullah and amatullah the impetus/urge to go and do Hajj whether it be with us or anyone else. But just go do it and not delay! In the same way I think alot of emphasis is required on the prayer, istiqama, returning to the qur’an etc. in order I believe to form the foundation for every Muslim to take Islam back to its days of glory, everything else well it will come naturally - the prayer protects us, istiqama gives us hope and tawakkul through our trials and tribulations and the qur’an with its explanations is our guidance in every matter. Allahu Alam.
Just only thing now is, where and how to start it??
Shehzad Latif Says: 15.05.08 at 5:54 am
Message for Br. Mahmud,
Firstly to all other users of this site, I apologise for using this forum in this way.
Br. Mahmud, I have now been trying to contact you for the last 3/4 days in order confirm my family’s Umrah bookings, but there has been no response from your office number (White Jewel - 08456 80 80 80) or your email.
As you are aware we are due to travel next Friday, 23rd May 08 and as yet you have not provided any details of confirmed bookings for the flights, hotel bookings and travel arrangements whilst in Saudi Arabia.
I must say that I am at this point very concerned about what is going on. We have already paid you for the flights and deposits for the hotel bookings, etc and this continued lack of acknowledgement from you/your company is very worrying.
I would appreciate if you receive this message if you could contact my brother Faisal urgently via his email address faisalatif225@yahoo.co.uk or on his mobile 07989 470 921.
I again apologise to other users of this site and to you for using the forum in this way, but to be honest I am getting a little desperate right now.
Shehzad Latif
Hanifah Storm Says: 22.06.08 at 5:02 am
ASA
Great message masha’Allah. We all believe there will be tomorrow to correct our mistakes, change poor actions, and treat people in our lives better. Each moment is spared to us by Allah. We have no guarantee of tomorrow.
Hanifah